container-author/editor?

A few times on the Zotero forum a user has been wanting to distinguish
a contributor from a book contributor. For example, one person wrote:

“Marilynne Robinson is the author of an introduction to a collection
of short stories by the author Kate Chopin. I have made a “book
section” object that has Robinson as the primary author, Title and
Book Title are clear, but I don’t know where to store Chopin other
than Extra…”

I believe this is the book in question:

http://www.ereader.com/product/detail/11531?book=The_Awakening

Elena has also mentioned a simillar case before.

We used to be able to do this with the “relation” attribute, but that
dropped out with the move to the more flat model. This is a negative
consequence of that move.

So the question is, do we need to add “container-author” and (maybe)
“container-editor” to be able to distinguish these?

Bruce

A few times on the Zotero forum a user has been wanting to distinguish
a contributor from a book contributor. For example, one person wrote:

“Marilynne Robinson is the author of an introduction to a collection
of short stories by the author Kate Chopin. I have made a “book
section” object that has Robinson as the primary author, Title and
Book Title are clear, but I don’t know where to store Chopin other
than Extra…”

I believe this is the book in question:

http://www.ereader.com/product/detail/11531?book=The_Awakening

Elena has also mentioned a simillar case before.

We used to be able to do this with the “relation” attribute, but that
dropped out with the move to the more flat model. This is a negative
consequence of that move.

So the question is, do we need to add “container-author” and (maybe)
“container-editor” to be able to distinguish these?

container-author would be great.

i added a ticket for an analogous creator type in zotero but it’s not
likely to happen any time soon:
https://www.zotero.org/trac/ticket/872

this is only necessary when a book by one author contains an
introduction or afterword by another:

George Lipsitz, “Creating Dangerously: The Blues Life of Johnny
Otis,” introduction to Upside Your Head! Rhythm and Blues on Central
Avenue, by Johnny Otis (Hanover: University Press of New England,
1993), xvii-xxxv.

“container-editor” is the same as the current “editor” so I don’t
think it’s necessary.

Best,
Elena

Elena Razlogova wrote:

A few times on the Zotero forum a user has been wanting to distinguish
a contributor from a book contributor. For example, one person wrote:

“Marilynne Robinson is the author of an introduction to a collection
of short stories by the author Kate Chopin. I have made a “book
section” object that has Robinson as the primary author, Title and
Book Title are clear, but I don’t know where to store Chopin other
than Extra…”

I believe this is the book in question:

http://www.ereader.com/product/detail/11531?book=The_Awakening

Elena has also mentioned a simillar case before.

We used to be able to do this with the “relation” attribute, but that
dropped out with the move to the more flat model. This is a negative
consequence of that move.

So the question is, do we need to add “container-author” and (maybe)
“container-editor” to be able to distinguish these?

container-author would be great.

i added a ticket for an analogous creator type in zotero but it’s not
likely to happen any time soon:
https://www.zotero.org/trac/ticket/872

this is only necessary when a book by one author contains an
introduction or afterword by another:

George Lipsitz, “Creating Dangerously: The Blues Life of Johnny
Otis,” introduction to Upside Your Head! Rhythm and Blues on Central
Avenue, by Johnny Otis (Hanover: University Press of New England,
1993), xvii-xxxv.

The case I was looking at would be citing the introduction. So if citing
Otis, then:

author = Otis
container-author = Lipsitz

I’m not sure it would work the same for your case, since the relation is
reversed. We’d probably have to call that “part-author” or some such.

Right?

“container-editor” is the same as the current “editor” so I don’t
think it’s necessary.

Yeah, good point.

Bruce

Elena Razlogova wrote:

A few times on the Zotero forum a user has been wanting to
distinguish
a contributor from a book contributor. For example, one person
wrote:

“Marilynne Robinson is the author of an introduction to a collection
of short stories by the author Kate Chopin. I have made a “book
section” object that has Robinson as the primary author, Title and
Book Title are clear, but I don’t know where to store Chopin other
than Extra…”

I believe this is the book in question:

http://www.ereader.com/product/detail/11531?book=The_Awakening

Elena has also mentioned a simillar case before.

We used to be able to do this with the “relation” attribute, but
that
dropped out with the move to the more flat model. This is a negative
consequence of that move.

So the question is, do we need to add “container-author” and (maybe)
“container-editor” to be able to distinguish these?

container-author would be great.

i added a ticket for an analogous creator type in zotero but it’s not
likely to happen any time soon:
https://www.zotero.org/trac/ticket/872

this is only necessary when a book by one author contains an
introduction or afterword by another:

George Lipsitz, “Creating Dangerously: The Blues Life of Johnny
Otis,” introduction to Upside Your Head! Rhythm and Blues on Central
Avenue, by Johnny Otis (Hanover: University Press of New England,
1993), xvii-xxxv.

The case I was looking at would be citing the introduction. So if
citing
Otis, then:

author = Otis
container-author = Lipsitz

I’m not sure it would work the same for your case, since the
relation is
reversed. We’d probably have to call that “part-author” or some such.

Right?

I’m not sure what you mean–my case is an introduction to a book also
(the introduction just has a title). Your case above would look like
this:

Marylin Robinson, introduction to The Awakening, by Kate Chopin (New
York: Bantam Books, 2003), 1-12.

In both cases:

author=Lipsitz/Robinson
container-author=Otis/Chopin

Best,
Elena

Elena Razlogova wrote:

I’m not sure what you mean–my case is an introduction to a book also
(the introduction just has a title). Your case above would look like
this:

Marylin Robinson, introduction to The Awakening, by Kate Chopin (New
York: Bantam Books, 2003), 1-12.

In both cases:

author=Lipsitz/Robinson
container-author=Otis/Chopin

No. I’m saying in “my” case the author is Robinson/Otis, and in "your’s"
it’s Lipsitz/Chopin. That’s why I say the relation is reversed.

The title ALWAYS refers to the cited item, and never to any related
items (container, part, series, etc.). The same is true of author and
other creators. Editor is an exception. For one thing, it’s not a
primary creator. For another, we simplify things for convenience. More
properly “editor” can be understood as really short-hand for
"container-editor" in the case of chapters, and simply “editor” when
dealing with whole (edited) books.

In short, the variables depend on context.

This happens to work well for formatting, though. Otherwise, you’d have
to move around variables and macros all the time. This way you don’t.

Bruce