I have a question about the zotero 2.1 (with csl 1.0): will it be
possible to cite ancient texts, which have locators after the title of
book (in the field of philosophy and theology)?
I need to know if with one single style I can cite two different forms:
for contemporary books:
Jean-Luc Marion, Dieu sans l’être, Quadrige / Presse
Universitaire de France, Paris, 1991, pp. 55-58.
for ancient texts:
Aristotel, /Metaphysics/, VII, 3, 1029 a, translated by
Translator, Publisher, City, Year, p. 247.
In the second example, in the locator after the title of book, I can use
only numbers (without book, section etc.); I have also the page number
at the end, but this is important only for first citation of this
ancient text. The subsequent citacions will be just like this:
Aristotel, /Metaphysics/, VII, 3, 1029 a.
EndNote uses a different item type, named Ancient Text, but Zotero have
only one item type, Book.
Maybe it is possible to make the difference of book and ancient book in
csl 1.0?
I know that I can manualy introduce these data, but if Zotero exists,
why don’t we have this possibility?
I have a question about the zotero 2.1 (with csl 1.0): will it be possible
to cite ancient texts, which have locators after the title of book (in the
field of philosophy and theology)?
I need to know if with one single style I can cite two different forms:
for contemporary books:
Jean-Luc Marion, Dieu sans l’être, Quadrige / Presse Universitaire de
France, Paris, 1991, pp. 55-58.
for ancient texts:
Aristotel, Metaphysics, VII, 3, 1029 a, translated by Translator, Publisher,
City, Year, p. 247.
In the second example, in the locator after the title of book, I can use
only numbers (without book, section etc.); I have also the page number at
the end, but this is important only for first citation of this ancient text.
The subsequent citacions will be just like this: Aristotel, Metaphysics,
VII, 3, 1029 a.
EndNote uses a different item type, named Ancient Text, but Zotero have only
one item type, Book.
Maybe it is possible to make the difference of book and ancient book in csl
1.0?
I know that I can manualy introduce these data, but if Zotero exists, why
don’t we have this possibility?
Let’s leave aside how it’s done in Endnote for a minute.
So to be precise, the data that you need here are:
volume
section
_____ ?
And these are “point citation” details analogous to page numbers for
more typical texts?
E.g. you’d want to enter these in the citation dialog, as opposed to
the item panel?
Bruce
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I can’t use many locators in Zotero UI, for citations (is it possible in Zotero 2.1).
I can’t make the difference between a book (which is an ancient text) and a book (which is not an ancient text) in CSL.
This is important for different kind of locators in different position in a citation:
book, chapter, section, column - after title and WITHOUT any words, only numbers;
page number: at the end of the citation, with p./pp. before the number.
A new item type, like ‘Ancient Text’, will resolve the second problem.
I can’t use many locators in Zotero UI, for citations (is it possible in Zotero 2.1).
That may be, but that doesn’t mean we can’t change it. It’s really
important that we first understand the problem before we move on to
solutions.
I can’t make the difference between a book (which is an ancient text) and a book (which is not an ancient text) in CSL.
This is important for different kind of locators in different position in a citation:
book, chapter, section, column - after title and WITHOUT any words, only numbers;
page number: at the end of the citation, with p./pp. before the number.
A new item type, like ‘Ancient Text’, will resolve the second problem.
Yeah, we’re not adding new types until we have a clear need to do so.
We’re not there yet.
So can you please answer each of the questions I asked you? I need to
know in particular, if these are details of the precise citation (I
assume footnote in your case), or if it’s really item data. I assume
it is the former, which means we first need to deal with this on the
Zotero (or other application ) end.
the linked discussion concerns classical texts and examines various solutions. we
decided then that at least three locators would be required > for classical texts, but
maybe frank can come up with a different solution.
Does suggest to me this likely isn’t a CSL type issue, and needs to be
addressed in the client applications (allowing multiple locators) and
then maybe secondarily (??) in allowing CSL to configure the order of
these locators.
This discussion concerns classical texts and examines various solutions. We decided then that at least three locators would be required for classical texts, hence this open ticket:
This discussion concerns classical texts and examines various solutions. We decided then that at least three locators would be required for classical texts, hence this open ticket:
But maybe Frank can come up with a better solution.
Best,
Elena
It is book, chapter, number of column:
Aristotel, Metaphysics, VII, 3, 1029 a
There are some problems here:
I can’t use many locators in Zotero UI, for citations (is it possible in Zotero 2.1).
That may be, but that doesn’t mean we can’t change it. It’s really
important that we first understand the problem before we move on to
solutions.
I can’t make the difference between a book (which is an ancient text) and a book (which is not an ancient text) in CSL.
This is important for different kind of locators in different position in a citation:
book, chapter, section, column - after title and WITHOUT any words, only numbers;
page number: at the end of the citation, with p./pp. before the number.
A new item type, like ‘Ancient Text’, will resolve the second problem.
Yeah, we’re not adding new types until we have a clear need to do so.
We’re not there yet.
So can you please answer each of the questions I asked you? I need to
know in particular, if these are details of the precise citation (I
assume footnote in your case), or if it’s really item data. I assume
it is the former, which means we first need to deal with this on the
Zotero (or other application ) end.
Related, where are you putting these data now?
Related to Bruce’s followup query, a likely starting point for
untangling this will be the desired appearance in the bibliography.
Are the standard pinpoint locators on the ancient text side meant to
appear in the bibliography (which would make them part of the item)?
Or is only the title of the work to be listed, with all pinpoints
specific to a particular reference?
Related to Bruce’s followup query, a likely starting point for
untangling this will be the desired appearance in the bibliography.
Are the standard pinpoint locators on the ancient text side meant to
appear in the bibliography (which would make them part of the item)?
Or is only the title of the work to be listed, with all pinpoints
specific to a particular reference?
I found some sources that suggest that classical works are typically not included in the bibliography:
Classical primary source references are ordinarily given in text or notes. They are included in a bibliography only when the reference is to information or annotation supplied by a modern author"
I can’t use many locators in Zotero UI, for citations (is it possible in Zotero 2.1).
That may be, but that doesn’t mean we can’t change it. It’s really
important that we first understand the problem before we move on to
solutions.
I can’t make the difference between a book (which is an ancient text) and a book (which is not an ancient text) in CSL.
This is important for different kind of locators in different position in a citation:
book, chapter, section, column - after title and WITHOUT any words, only numbers;
page number: at the end of the citation, with p./pp. before the number.
A new item type, like ‘Ancient Text’, will resolve the second problem.
Yeah, we’re not adding new types until we have a clear need to do so.
We’re not there yet.
So can you please answer each of the questions I asked you? I need to
know in particular, if these are details of the precise citation (I
assume footnote in your case), or if it’s really item data. I assume
it is the former, which means we first need to deal with this on the
Zotero (or other application ) end.
Related, where are you putting these data now?
Bruce
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Hi,
I’m not interested now about multiple locators, but about multiple
positions of the different locators.
I have one single style (footnote & bibliography - Romanian Humanities
or INTER style) and one single item type - book. But i have two positions:
for the ancient text, locators come after the title of the book; e.g.
Aristotel, /Metaphysics/, VII, 4, 1008 a
for the contemporary books, locators (e.g. pages) come at the end;
e.g. Turcan, /About Aristotel/, City, Publisher, 2010, pp. 10-12.
With one single item type I can’t put the different locators in these
different positions.
Thank you very much,
But are they really different positions, or does the first one just
not include the publication information? Which is the page number(s)
in the first example?
Pe 28.09.2010 20:24, Bruce D’Arcus a scris:> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 11:39 AM, nturcan<@nturcan> wrote:
Pe 28.09.2010 00:19, Bruce D’Arcus a scris:
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 5:13 PM, nturcan<@nturcan> wrote:
It is book, chapter, number of column:
Aristotel, Metaphysics, VII, 3, 1029 a
There are some problems here:
I can’t use many locators in Zotero UI, for citations (is it possible in
Zotero 2.1).
That may be, but that doesn’t mean we can’t change it. It’s really
important that we first understand the problem before we move on to
solutions.
I can’t make the difference between a book (which is an ancient text) and
a book (which is not an ancient text) in CSL.
This is important for different kind of locators in different position in a
citation:
book, chapter, section, column - after title and WITHOUT any words, only
numbers;
page number: at the end of the citation, with p./pp. before the number.
A new item type, like ‘Ancient Text’, will resolve the second problem.
Yeah, we’re not adding new types until we have a clear need to do so.
We’re not there yet.
So can you please answer each of the questions I asked you? I need to
know in particular, if these are details of the precise citation (I
assume footnote in your case), or if it’s really item data. I assume
it is the former, which means we first need to deal with this on the
Zotero (or other application ) end.
Related, where are you putting these data now?
Bruce
Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances
and start using them to simplify application deployment and
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Hi,
I’m not interested now about multiple locators, but about multiple positions
of the different locators.
I have one single style (footnote& bibliography - Romanian Humanities or
INTER style) and one single item type - book. But i have two positions:
for the ancient text, locators come after the title of the book; e.g.
Aristotel, Metaphysics, VII, 4, 1008 a
for the contemporary books, locators (e.g. pages) come at the end; e.g.
Turcan, About Aristotel, City, Publisher, 2010, pp. 10-12.
With one single item type I can’t put the different locators in these
different positions.
OK, I understand.
But are they really different positions, or does the first one just
not include the publication information? Which is the page number(s)
in the first example?
Bruce
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and start using them to simplify application deployment and
accelerate your shift to cloud computing. Best Open Source Mac Front-Ends 2023
xbiblio-devel mailing list xbiblio-devel@lists.sourceforge.net xbiblio-devel List Signup and Options
There is no page number for the ancient text, in the field of philosophy
or theology. We need two positions. This is the reason for a new item
type, Ancient Text, would resolve this problem.
Are you reading everything I write? I think were talking past each other.
Pe 28.09.2010 20:24, Bruce D’Arcus a scris:
Pe 28.09.2010 00:19, Bruce D’Arcus a scris:
It is book, chapter, number of column:
Aristotel, Metaphysics, VII, 3, 1029 a
There are some problems here:
I can’t use many locators in Zotero UI, for citations (is it possible
in
Zotero 2.1).
That may be, but that doesn’t mean we can’t change it. It’s really
important that we first understand the problem before we move on to
solutions.
I can’t make the difference between a book (which is an ancient text)
and
a book (which is not an ancient text) in CSL.
This is important for different kind of locators in different position
in a
citation:
book, chapter, section, column - after title and WITHOUT any words,
only
numbers;
page number: at the end of the citation, with p./pp. before the
number.On Sep 28, 2010 2:44 PM, “nturcan” <@nturcan> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 11:39 AM, nturcan<@nturcan> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 5:13 PM, nturcan<@nturcan> wrote:
A new item type, like ‘Ancient Text’, will resolve the second problem.
Yeah, we’re not adding new types until we have a clear need to do so.
We’re not there yet.
So can you please answer each of the questions I asked you? I need to
know in particular, if these are details of the precise citation (I
assume footnote in your case), or if it’s really item data. I assume
it is the former, which means we first need to deal with this on the
Zotero (or other application ) end.
Related, where are you putting these data now?
Bruce
Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances
and start using them to simplify application deployment and
accelerate your shift to cloud computing. Best Open Source Mac Front-Ends 2023
Hi,
I’m not interested now about multiple locators, but about multiple
positions
of the different locators.
I have one single style (footnote& bibliography - Romanian Humanities or
INTER style) and one single item type - book. But i have two positions:
for the ancient text, locators come after the title of the book; e.g.
Aristotel, Metaphysics, VII, 4, 1008 a
for the contemporary books, locators (e.g. pages) come at the end;
e.g.
Turcan, About Aristotel, City, Publisher, 2010, pp. 10-12.
With one single item type I can’t put the different locators in these
different positions.
OK, I understand.
But are they really different positions, or does the first one just
not include the publication information? Which is the page number(s)
in the first example?
Bruce
Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances
and start using them to simplify application deployment and
accelerate your shift to cloud computing. Best Open Source Mac Front-Ends 2023
xbiblio-devel mailing list xbiblio-devel@lists.sourceforge.net xbiblio-devel List Signup and Options
There is no page number for the ancient text, in the field of philosophy
or theology. We need two positions. This is the reason for a new item
type, Ancient Text, would resolve this problem.
I can’t use many locators in Zotero UI, for citations (is it possible in
Zotero 2.1).
That may be, but that doesn’t mean we can’t change it. It’s really
important that we first understand the problem before we move on to
solutions.
I can’t make the difference between a book (which is an ancient text) and
a book (which is not an ancient text) in CSL.
This is important for different kind of locators in different position in a
citation:
book, chapter, section, column - after title and WITHOUT any words, only
numbers;
page number: at the end of the citation, with p./pp. before the number.
A new item type, like ‘Ancient Text’, will resolve the second problem.
Yeah, we’re not adding new types until we have a clear need to do so.
We’re not there yet.
So can you please answer each of the questions I asked you? I need to
know in particular, if these are details of the precise citation (I
assume footnote in your case), or if it’s really item data. I assume
it is the former, which means we first need to deal with this on the
Zotero (or other application ) end.
Related, where are you putting these data now?
Bruce
Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances
and start using them to simplify application deployment and
accelerate your shift to cloud computing. Best Open Source Mac Front-Ends 2023
Hi,
I’m not interested now about multiple locators, but about multiple positions
of the different locators.
I have one single style (footnote & bibliography - Romanian Humanities or
INTER style) and one single item type - book. But i have two positions:
for the ancient text, locators come after the title of the book; e.g.
Aristotel, Metaphysics, VII, 4, 1008 a
for the contemporary books, locators (e.g. pages) come at the end; e.g.
Turcan, About Aristotel, City, Publisher, 2010, pp. 10-12.
With one single item type I can’t put the different locators in these
different positions.
I think everyone understands the issue; we’re trying to work out a
smooth way of addressing it.
The INTER style is a footnote-with-bibliography style. One of my
questions was of which locators need to appear in the bibliography
(without variation through the document), and which need to appear in
footnotes only (and to vary across the document). Can you provide
that information?
Pe 28.09.2010 23:29, Frank Bennett a scris:> On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:39 AM, nturcan<@nturcan> wrote:
Pe 28.09.2010 00:19, Bruce D’Arcus a scris:
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 5:13 PM, nturcan<@nturcan> wrote:
It is book, chapter, number of column:
Aristotel, Metaphysics, VII, 3, 1029 a
There are some problems here:
I can’t use many locators in Zotero UI, for citations (is it possible in
Zotero 2.1).
That may be, but that doesn’t mean we can’t change it. It’s really
important that we first understand the problem before we move on to
solutions.
I can’t make the difference between a book (which is an ancient text) and
a book (which is not an ancient text) in CSL.
This is important for different kind of locators in different position in a
citation:
book, chapter, section, column - after title and WITHOUT any words, only
numbers;
page number: at the end of the citation, with p./pp. before the number.
A new item type, like ‘Ancient Text’, will resolve the second problem.
Yeah, we’re not adding new types until we have a clear need to do so.
We’re not there yet.
So can you please answer each of the questions I asked you? I need to
know in particular, if these are details of the precise citation (I
assume footnote in your case), or if it’s really item data. I assume
it is the former, which means we first need to deal with this on the
Zotero (or other application ) end.
Related, where are you putting these data now?
Bruce
Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances
and start using them to simplify application deployment and
accelerate your shift to cloud computing. Best Open Source Mac Front-Ends 2023
Hi,
I’m not interested now about multiple locators, but about multiple positions
of the different locators.
I have one single style (footnote& bibliography - Romanian Humanities or
INTER style) and one single item type - book. But i have two positions:
for the ancient text, locators come after the title of the book; e.g.
Aristotel, Metaphysics, VII, 4, 1008 a
for the contemporary books, locators (e.g. pages) come at the end; e.g.
Turcan, About Aristotel, City, Publisher, 2010, pp. 10-12.
With one single item type I can’t put the different locators in these
different positions.
I think everyone understands the issue; we’re trying to work out a
smooth way of addressing it.
The INTER style is a footnote-with-bibliography style. One of my
questions was of which locators need to appear in the bibliography
(without variation through the document), and which need to appear in
footnotes only (and to vary across the document). Can you provide
that information?
Thanks,
Frank
Thank you very much,
Nicolae
Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances
and start using them to simplify application deployment and
accelerate your shift to cloud computing. Best Open Source Mac Front-Ends 2023
Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances
and start using them to simplify application deployment and
accelerate your shift to cloud computing. Best Open Source Mac Front-Ends 2023