Wishlist for the style schema

OK, this is a wishlist, but its based on having tried to set up a number of
styles (~ 30).

  • An additional author called series-editor, where it is used for more
    complex things where there is an overall series editor - might be an overall
    editor of an encyclopaedia or a multi-volume book covering a history or
    similar.
  • A type of biblical, or something else faintly religious. I can’t
    shoe horn biblical references in alongside other types currently. They’re
    just out on their own as a style!
  • A type based on book or chapter for a course text. Certainly in my
    world there are a lot of these, in which say, book 3, is written by an
    author, but is part of a multi-volume set which has a title. I think there
    are enough constructs to put something like this together if I had a type to
    allow the ordering to be different to a regular book or chapter. E.g.,

The Open University (1984) T281 *Basic physical science for
technology,*Unit 9, ‘Thermochemistry’, Milton Keynes, The Open
University.

which breaks down as

author=The Open University date=(1984) collection-title=T281
series-title=Basic
physical science for technology,
title=Unit 9, ‘Thermochemistry’,
location=Milton Keynes, publisher=The Open University.

and needs to be different to a chapter as in

Mason, R. (1994) ‘The educational value of ISDN’, in Mason, R. and Bacsich,
P. (eds.), ISDN: applications in education and training, Exeter, Short Run
Press

Both examples taken from the Open University Harvard referencing guidelines.

This would also allow me to do the in-text citations too I think, in the way
some of the courses require which I’ve droned on about before. Perhaps call
it book-series or something? There’s probably a library term for it. It goes
together somewhat with the first point in some styles.

  • quotes=single/double/none as an option instead of quotes=true/false
    to wrap things in ' as well as "" - there may be other quotation styles (french quotes?). I've tried prefix="" but it doesn’t look at all nice in
    word.
  • Some attributes to chapter, volume and volume no. to allow
    formatting. I think what is required is probably form=numeric/ordinal/roman
    to allow “vol. 3”, “vol III” “3rd vol”. Also a label like in pages that can
    be vol, volume, chap, chapter etc.
  • Something similar for edition (form and label). I think it best to
    store edition as a number and then format it so we can have things like 3rd
    edition, ed. 3, edition 3, 3(superscript)rd ed ideally driven by the style
    rather than the text input. The numeric formatting should probably be
    factored out so it can be applied to dates as well.

Well that’s it for now!

Julian.

Simon, see below …

Julian Onions wrote:

OK, this is a wishlist, but its based on having tried to set up a number
of styles (~ 30).

* An additional author called series-editor, where it is used for
  more complex things where there is an overall series editor -
  might be an overall editor of an encyclopaedia or a multi-volume
  book covering a history or similar.

Done.

* A type of biblical, or something else faintly religious. I can't
  shoe horn biblical references in alongside other types currently.
  They're just out on their own as a style!

I’m not convinced there isn’t a generic solution for this issue, since
it seems to intersect with other use cases. For example, John brought up
some of these.

* A type based on book or chapter for a course text. Certainly in my
  world there are a lot of these, in which say, book 3, is written
  by an author, but is part of a multi-volume set which has a title.
  I think there are enough constructs to put something like this
  together if I had a type to allow the ordering to be different to
  a regular book or chapter. E.g.,

I’m not seeing why this is an issue specific to courses, nor what the
problem is?

The Open University (1984) T281 /Basic physical science for technology,/
Unit 9, ‘Thermochemistry’, Milton Keynes, The Open University.

which breaks down as

author=The Open University date=(1984) collection-title=T281
/series-title=Basic physical science for technology,/ title=Unit 9,
‘Thermochemistry’, location=Milton Keynes, publisher=The Open University.

and needs to be different to a chapter as in

Mason, R. (1994) ‘The educational value of ISDN’, in Mason, R. and
Bacsich, P. (eds.), /ISDN: applications in education and training/,
Exeter, Short Run Press

Both examples taken from the Open University Harvard referencing guidelines.

This would also allow me to do the in-text citations too I think, in the
way some of the courses require which I’ve droned on about before.

Right, but as I said, I think there needs to be am more generic solution
for this, and perhaps for biblical texts.

Perhaps call it book-series or something? There’s probably a library
term for it. It goes together somewhat with the first point in some styles.

* quotes=single/double/none as an option instead of
  quotes=true/false to wrap things in ` ' as well as "" - there may
  be other quotation styles (french quotes?). I've tried prefix="`"
  but it doesn't look at all nice in word.

Simon?

* Some attributes to chapter, volume and volume no. to allow
  formatting.  I think what is required is probably
  form=numeric/ordinal/roman to allow "vol. 3", "vol III" "3rd vol".
  Also a label like in pages that can be vol, volume, chap, chapter
  etc.

Simon?

* Something similar for edition (form and label). I think it best to
  store edition as a number and then format it so we can have things
  like 3rd edition, ed. 3, edition 3, 3(superscript)rd ed ideally
  driven by the style rather than the text input. The numeric
  formatting should probably be factored out so it can be applied to
  dates as well.

Simon?

Bruce

  • A type of biblical, or something else faintly religious. I can’t
    shoe horn biblical references in alongside other types currently.
    They’re just out on their own as a style!

I’m not convinced there isn’t a generic solution for this issue, since
it seems to intersect with other use cases. For example, John brought up
some of these.

The cases are those described in Chicago 15, Special Types of References,
pp. 715-23, especially paragraphs 17.246-62.

I think a member of the class is a standard work in which

  • for citation purposes publication details are unimportant (e.g., it does
    not matter whose printing of the King James Bible or Plato’s Republic or
    Shakespeare’s Hamlet you are using)
  • locations are logical rather than physical.

Instances of the class include:

  • Scriptural works, including the Bible and Qur’an (Gen. 25:19-36:43)
  • Classical Greek and Latin literature (Aristotle, Prior Analytics,
    2.23.68b43)
  • Canonical literature (Milton, Paradise Lost, bk. 1, lines 83-86)
  • More recent works, now public domain and widely reprinted, for which
    logical rather than physical locators are more useful (Marx, Capital, bk. 1,
    ch. 7, ¶1)

Sometimes the work is left out of the bibliography, though it might be
included if some ancillary publication-specific info, such as translator, is
useful.

Sometimes a logical locator is necessary but a physical one added (Mill,
System of Logic, 4.6.8, p. 345). An initial note will explain that the page
numbers are to the editions listed in the bibliography.

Unfortunately, different journals concatenate locators differently. One
journal may prefer Prior Analytics B 23 68b47. Another may want Prior
Analytics 2.23.68b47.

I suspect as more works go digital and printed manifestations become less
important, this class will grow. Maybe these works should be seen as a
subclass of an existing digital class, a class already utilizing logical,
rather than physical, locators. (My students are already struggling with how
to cite, say, a passage in Darwin’s Origin of Species when they have read it
only on-line.)

– John

  • quotes=single/double/none as an option instead of
    quotes=true/false to wrap things in ' as well as "" - there may be other quotation styles (french quotes?). I've tried prefix=""
    but it doesn’t look at all nice in word.

Can’t hurt to have it, and isn’t any harder to implement than simple
quotes=“true”.

  • Some attributes to chapter, volume and volume no. to allow
    formatting. I think what is required is probably
    form=numeric/ordinal/roman to allow “vol. 3”, “vol III” “3rd
    vol”.
    Also a label like in pages that can be vol, volume, chap,
    chapter
    etc.

Should be possible, but how do we handle ordinal numbering in the
locales? Or shall we leave this up to the interpreter?

  • Something similar for edition (form and label). I think it
    best to
    store edition as a number and then format it so we can have
    things
    like 3rd edition, ed. 3, edition 3, 3(superscript)rd ed ideally
    driven by the style rather than the text input. The numeric
    formatting should probably be factored out so it can be
    applied to
    dates as well.

Generally, this sounds like a good idea. Again, we have a bit of a
problem, because at least in Zotero, we’ll have to translate things
like “third” into 3, which is easy to do for one locale but harder to
do for all locales. Then again, simply supporting 1-10 is probably
good enough. Are there any styles that require “third” versus “3rd”?

Simon

  • quotes=single/double/none as an option instead of
    quotes=true/false to wrap things in ' as well as "" - there may be other quotation styles (french quotes?). I've tried prefix=""
    but it doesn’t look at all nice in word.

Can’t hurt to have it, and isn’t any harder to implement than simple
quotes=“true”.

Would “single” or “double” always mean curly quotes, or should “curly/not
curly” be an option?

– John

John P. McCaskey wrote:

  • quotes=single/double/none as an option instead of
    quotes=true/false to wrap things in ' as well as "" - there may be other quotation styles (french quotes?). I've tried prefix=""
    but it doesn’t look at all nice in word.
    Can’t hurt to have it, and isn’t any harder to implement than simple
    quotes=“true”.

Would “single” or “double” always mean curly quotes, or should “curly/not
curly” be an option?

Why would one want “not curly”? My impulse is to vote no for this, but
am interested in your thinking.

Bruce

  • Some attributes to chapter, volume and volume no. to allow
    formatting. I think what is required is probably
    form=numeric/ordinal/roman to allow “vol. 3”, “vol III” “3rd
    vol”.
    Also a label like in pages that can be vol, volume, chap,
    chapter
    etc.

Should be possible, but how do we handle ordinal numbering in the
locales? Or shall we leave this up to the interpreter?

Its already handled for dates, so I imagine the same logic should apply.

  • Something similar for edition (form and label). I think it

best to
store edition as a number and then format it so we can have
things
like 3rd edition, ed. 3, edition 3, 3(superscript)rd ed ideally
driven by the style rather than the text input. The numeric
formatting should probably be factored out so it can be
applied to
dates as well.

Generally, this sounds like a good idea. Again, we have a bit of a
problem, because at least in Zotero, we’ll have to translate things
like “third” into 3, which is easy to do for one locale but harder to
do for all locales. Then again, simply supporting 1-10 is probably
good enough. Are there any styles that require “third” versus “3rd”?

I don’t think I’ve seen any yet, but its probably only a matter of time!

Julian.

  • Some attributes to chapter, volume and volume no. to allow
    formatting. I think what is required is probably
    form=numeric/ordinal/roman to allow “vol. 3”, “vol III” “3rd
    vol”.
    Also a label like in pages that can be vol, volume, chap,
    chapter
    etc.

Should be possible, but how do we handle ordinal numbering in the
locales? Or shall we leave this up to the interpreter?

Its already handled for dates, so I imagine the same logic should
apply.

Only in English. I don’t think Zotero can handle it properly in other
languages, although other languages often have different assumptions
when it comes to the use of ordinal numbers, so I don’t know if it
matters. I also don’t know whether it’s something we want to worry
about in locales.xml or something that we should consider
implementation-specific.

  • Something similar for edition (form and label). I think it
    best to
    store edition as a number and then format it so we can have
    things
    like 3rd edition, ed. 3, edition 3, 3(superscript)rd ed
    ideally
 driven by the style rather than the text input. The numeric
 formatting should probably be factored out so it can be

applied to
dates as well.

Generally, this sounds like a good idea. Again, we have a bit of a
problem, because at least in Zotero, we’ll have to translate things
like “third” into 3, which is easy to do for one locale but harder to
do for all locales. Then again, simply supporting 1-10 is probably
good enough. Are there any styles that require “third” versus “3rd”?

I don’t think I’ve seen any yet, but its probably only a matter of
time!

Again, do we want to put first/second/third/etc. into locales.xml? Or
shall we leave this up to the implementation?

Simon