Beauvoir, Simone de > family, given particle
Ben-Gurion, David > family, given
Costa, Uriel da > family, given particle
da Cunha, Euclides > family, given
D’Amato, Alfonse > family, given
de Gaulle, Charles > family, given
di Leonardo, Micaela > family, given
Keere, Pieter van den > family, given particle
Kooning, Willem de > family, given particle
La Fontaine, Jean de > family, given particle
Leonardo da Vinci > (I presume) family, given
Medici, Lorenzo de’ > family, given particle
Van Rensselaer, Stephen > family, given
This suggests that Chicago-conformant styles would treat Dutch names
as in Holland, and German names as in Germany. So if no publisher
ever deviates from Chicago rules, then no option is necessary.
We still don’t know whether that is the case, of course.
Just one comment. This looks ok for my western eyes (no clue if that
works in Asia, for example).
Would the (author-date) citation than be constructed as
(particle family year) ie (van den Keere 2000)
Sounds good to me and allows for the individual flexibility (author
preference) that is required.
How would particles be recognized when entering into an editor? Three
text fields? Otherwise it would be tricky to parse Pieter van den Keere
automatically. (even entering “van den Keere, Pieter” would be
ambigous), the alone that “World Health Organization” still needs to
work as a single name.
Sebastian
Beauvoir, Simone de > family, given particle
Ben-Gurion, David > family, given
Costa, Uriel da > family, given particle
da Cunha, Euclides > family, given
D’Amato, Alfonse > family, given
de Gaulle, Charles > family, given
di Leonardo, Micaela > family, given
Keere, Pieter van den > family, given particle
Kooning, Willem de > family, given particle
La Fontaine, Jean de > family, given particle
Leonardo da Vinci > (I presume) family, given
Medici, Lorenzo de’ > family, given particle
Van Rensselaer, Stephen > family, given
This suggests that Chicago-conformant styles would treat Dutch names
as in Holland, and German names as in Germany. So if no publisher
ever deviates from Chicago rules, then no option is necessary.
We still don’t know whether that is the case, of course.
Just one comment. This looks ok for my western eyes (no clue if that
works in Asia, for example).
The major Asian jurisdictions (China, Japan) do not use honorific
titles in names, apply sort ordering always, and do not drop the given
name. The new citeproc-js processor currently treats all names in
non-roman, non-Cyrillic scripts in this way. For romanized Chinese or
Japanese names, the typesetting convention varies from journal to
journal. Science journals tend to handle them like Western names. In
the humanities, we tend to adopt local formatting conventions even
when the name is romanized. The processor recognizes a toggle for
this, but it’s not currently tied into CSL.
Would the (author-date) citation than be constructed as
(particle family year) ie (van den Keere 2000)
The option that determines the position of the particle will be
applied separately to bibliography and citations, so the conventions
for the two can differ. The current word out is that the format you
suggest above is the right one for citations.
Sounds good to me and allows for the individual flexibility (author
preference) that is required.
How would particles be recognized when entering into an editor? Three
text fields? Otherwise it would be tricky to parse Pieter van den Keere
automatically. (even entering “van den Keere, Pieter” would be
ambigous), the alone that “World Health Organization” still needs to
work as a single name.
Initially, the particle can be entered as Bruce’s examples above show,
in the existing two-field layout for personal names in Zotero. When
placed after the given name, the processor will parse out the
particle, based on the fact that it consists entirely of lowercase
letters – but internally, it will be handled as if it were a separate
field. For names in which the particle is part of the family, just
enter it there, and that’s where it will stay.
Frank Bennett wrote:
Initially, the particle can be entered as Bruce’s examples above show,
in the existing two-field layout for personal names in Zotero. When
placed after the given name, the processor will parse out the
particle, based on the fact that it consists entirely of lowercase
letters –
Not sure that is always a correct assumption. Again, here in Switzerland
they’d write names with a capital “Von” (Von Lanthen). But then it is
not being treated as a particle but part of the regular name. But I am
sure we can come up with particles that are not just lower case.
Some Googling gave German nobility titles as an example (which are
particle to the family name rather than valid titles nowadays)
(Gräfin=Countess):
“Gräfin Sieglinde Maria von Stein”
Given Name: Sieglinde Maria
Family name: Stein
Particle: Gräfin von
would appear in a phone book as "Stein, Gräfin von, Sieglinde Maria, "
(I presume the last is correct, not 100% sure)
But I admit this is beginning to look farfetched. People just shouldn’t
be allowed to have these names :-).
Sebastian
signature.asc (260 Bytes)
Frank Bennett wrote:
Initially, the particle can be entered as Bruce’s examples above show,
in the existing two-field layout for personal names in Zotero. When
placed after the given name, the processor will parse out the
particle, based on the fact that it consists entirely of lowercase
letters –
Not sure that is always a correct assumption.
I think it should probably work so long as it only applies to the
given name field (as Frank suggests).
Again, here in Switzerland
they’d write names with a capital “Von” (Von Lanthen). But then it is
not being treated as a particle but part of the regular name…
Right, so it’s not a problem.
… But I admit this is beginning to look farfetched.
We can’t worry too much about possible edge cases.
Bruce
Frank Bennett wrote:
Initially, the particle can be entered as Bruce’s examples above show,
in the existing two-field layout for personal names in Zotero. When
placed after the given name, the processor will parse out the
particle, based on the fact that it consists entirely of lowercase
letters –
Not sure that is always a correct assumption.
Thanks for this challenge! I hadn’t thought about the “Baron/Baroness
of” possibility. Some manual adjustment may be needed with such a
titled person is to have their full title included, as author, in a
bibliographic citation. But it does seem a pretty likely to be a rare
case.
I think it should probably work so long as it only applies to the
given name field (as Frank suggests).
Again, here in Switzerland
they’d write names with a capital “Von” (Von Lanthen). But then it is
not being treated as a particle but part of the regular name…
Right, so it’s not a problem.
… But I admit this is beginning to look farfetched.
We can’t worry too much about possible edge cases.
The time for composing tests seems to be drawing near.