Bruce–
When you have a chance can you look at the chicago note without
bibliography style (in the dev section)
http://www.zotero.org/styles/
Let me know if you think something should be changed. The macros are
different from your APA style because formatting is a bit more
complicated and encompasses more item types.
Some oddities and complications came up because of Zotero field
structure (which can be revised) but also because some item types fall
back to “book” but are formatted differently (not sure if this can be
fixed).
Thanks,
Elena
When you have a chance can you look at the chicago note without
bibliography style (in the dev section)
Will do.
Some oddities and complications came up because of Zotero field
structure (which can be revised) but also because some item types fall
back to “book” but are formatted differently (not sure if this can be
fixed).
I’ve run into the problem of really wanting condition formatting only
on “book” without the fallback behavior.
Maybe we need to be able to disable it?
Bruce
I’ve run into the problem of really wanting condition formatting only
on “book” without the fallback behavior.
Maybe we need to be able to disable it?
Well, I wouldn’t want to disable fallback altogether because it works
great for italicizing titles. But date and publication formatting for
book do not apply to most other sources. Something more general, that
does not need any special formatting, would work better for a
fallback. Any desire to return to the idea of “published document”?
Elena> Bruce
Elena Razlogova wrote:
Let me know if you think something should be changed. The macros are
different from your APA style because formatting is a bit more
complicated and encompasses more item types.
OK, here’s some quick questions and observations, since I’m insanely
busy ATM and don’t have time to test it or to look deeply. Sorry if I
say/ask something dumb!
From the top:
- Contributors
Should the substitute children be calling the “editor-translator” macro,
rather than variables?
-
Why macros for “author”, “author-full”, and “author-short”? Can’t you
ditch the second one?
-
The “issue” macro looks really long, which has me wondering if you
can’t break it apart? For sake of argument, what would happen if instead
you had something like (again, untested):
<text macro="issued" prefix=" (" suffix=")"/>
</if>
<else-if variable="publisher-place publisher" match="any">
<group prefix=" (" suffix=")" delimiter=", ">
<text macro="genre-medium"/>
<text macro="event"/>
<text macro="publisher"/>
<text macro="issued"/>
</group>
</else-if>
<else>
<text macro="issued" prefix=", "/>
</else>
</choose>
On the citation layout, it’s obviously more complex than I’d hope, so
bear with me and let’s see if it’s possible to simplify.
-
You start with a series of conditionals to test for citation
position. At first I thought you could incorporate that into the author
macro, but I guess that’s wrong. It probably needs to stay here.
-
The below may be related to some issues with Zotero, but I don’t see
why archive needs to be wrapped in a group or a conditional.
<group prefix=", " delimiter=", ">
<choose>
<if type="graphic report" match="any">
<text macro="archive"/>
</if>
<else-if type="book thesis chapter article-journal
article-newspaper article-magazine"
match=“none”>
What would be wrong with having a macro like:
… and simply calling that directly like …
<text macro="issue"/>
<text macro="locator"/>
<text macro="access"/>
…? I’m not seeing logically why you’d restrict printing the archive
information depending on type.
As an aside, I’d like to see if in this process we can isolate down a
standard set of macro names. Off the top of my head, I see:
author
secondary-contributor
issued
publisher
event
locators
access
container-title
medium-genre (or maybe description)
container-prefix
Bruce
Elena Razlogova wrote:
Let me know if you think something should be changed. The macros are
different from your APA style because formatting is a bit more
complicated and encompasses more item types.
OK, here’s some quick questions and observations, since I’m insanely
busy ATM and don’t have time to test it or to look deeply. Sorry if I
say/ask something dumb!
From the top:
- Contributors
Should the substitute children be calling the “editor-translator”
macro,
rather than variables?
Well, this is legacy from Julian, and it seems to work. Your APA style
uses variables here as well.
- Why macros for “author”, “author-full”, and “author-short”? Can’t
you
ditch the second one?
removed–also legacy from julian
- The “issue” macro looks really long, which has me wondering if you
can’t break it apart? For sake of argument, what would happen if
instead
you had something like (again, untested):
The “genre-medium” is not going to work here, because “genre” needs to
stay within brackets for thesis and paper-conference, but outside
brackets for all other item types.
Other edits are possible, but do we need a separate “event” and
“publisher” macros here? Why have macros within macros in general? If
I know that the “publisher” macro will only exist inside the “issue”
macro, or “archive” only in “access” (as you suggest below), why
create “publisher” and “archive” at all?
I made “issued” a separate macro because it appears twice in a
conditional, but “event” and “publisher” only appear once hence they
can be formatted within “issue” without any extra code. And formatting
them as separate macros does create several lines of code that don’t
need to be there.
Hi Elena,
Elena Razlogova wrote:
Well, this is legacy from Julian, and it seems to work. Your APA style
uses variables here as well.
Well, it’s not like I claim I’m perfect. It’s just an iterative process
of refinement. I’ll look into this change in APA as well.
…
So what is more important here–standard macros (nonstandard macros
such as “issue” in chicago will still need to be there) or fewer lines
of code? Either way is fine w/ me as long as we agree on it.
Fewer lines of code, simpler editing and debugging, and most
importantly, easier reuse.
I’ve been slowly incrementally adding to the MakeCSL mockup:
http://www.users.muohio.edu/darcusb/citations/MakeCSL/
If you click on the “next” link, you might get an idea of where I’m
going with this. I’m trying to isolate all the minor differences between
styles to macros, so that we can easily remix them to create new styles.
I think this is really useful in hand-editing, but essential in a GUI
interface.
To be really concrete, what I’m imagining is this:
- we have a generic style that is only macros. Imagine a file full of
stuff like:
...
- we have an XHTML preview file that contains matching previews for
these macro chunks; e.g.:
- MakeCSL then simply presents a user lists of choices with previews. A
user doesn’t have to worry about anything but choosing what the output
should look like.
So say, for example, a user chooses a base style where everything is
exactly the same as what they need for their style, except the
publisher. Instead of being “New York:ABC Books” they need it to be “ABC
Book:New York”. So in the third pane they could select that option, and
the style would get assembled using that macro.
All of this is to say, refine where you can, and as you have time. I’ll
do the same.
Bruce
You should make sure this will give the appropriate output. In some styles,
the editor and translator are formatted differently when they substitute
for the author.
Simon
Elena Razlogova wrote:
Well, this is legacy from Julian, and it seems to work. Your APA
style
uses variables here as well.
Well, it’s not like I claim I’m perfect. It’s just an iterative
process
of refinement. I’ll look into this change in APA as well.
You should make sure this will give the appropriate output. In some
styles,
the editor and translator are formatted differently when they
substitute
for the author.
Yes, it doesn’t work in Chicago, whereas the variables formatting works.
Elena
Good point; I hadn’t thought about that.
Bruce