Formatting Attributes

I’ve been working through the formatting attributes for the spec (
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/xbiblio/changeset/1051), and I’ve got some
questions:

  • should all the formatting attributes (quotes, italics, text-case) also
    work on the affixes? Currently Zotero doesn’t take them along, but I don’t
    know whether that’s the desired behavior.
  • I still don’t understand inline-block. I’ve found this page,
    http://www.quirksmode.org/css/display.html#inlineblock, but that seems to
    suggest inline-block only has use when you specify a width.
  • how do you know what the options are for “font-family”. I guess that
    Zotero can draw on the fonts available within Firefox, but how does this
    work for a standalone CSL processor? Are then the system-fonts available?

Rintze

I’ve been working through the formatting attributes for the spec
(http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/xbiblio/changeset/1051), and I’ve got some
questions:

  • should all the formatting attributes (quotes, italics, text-case) also
    work on the affixes? Currently Zotero doesn’t take them along, but I don’t
    know whether that’s the desired behavior.

This is a decision we need to make. Once case where they clearly
should is with superscript for citation marks.

See the threads on the zotero forums about the damned anthropology styles.

  • how do you know what the options are for “font-family”. I guess that
    Zotero can draw on the fonts available within Firefox, but how does this
    work for a standalone CSL processor? Are then the system-fonts available?

I think we should remove this option entirely. It serves no useful
purpose, and adds needless complexity.

Bruce

I’ve been working through the formatting attributes for the spec
(http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/xbiblio/changeset/1051), and I’ve got some
questions:

  • should all the formatting attributes (quotes, italics, text-case) also
    work on the affixes? Currently Zotero doesn’t take them along, but I don’t
    know whether that’s the desired behavior.

This is a decision we need to make. Once case where they clearly
should is with superscript for citation marks.

The new processor applies formatting in a different order on the
layout element in order to capture affixes to the layout, but I think
a uniform order of application can safely be used everywhere, if it’s
made a bit more fine-grained than I now have it. From innermost to
outermost:

text-case
text-decoration
font-style, font-weight, font-variant, *font-family
(pre-quote punctuation from suffix)
quotes
affixes (less pre-quote punctuation)
vertical-align

  • If at all – I like Bruce’s idea of dropping font-family.

I’ve been working through the formatting attributes for the spec
(http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/xbiblio/changeset/1051), and I’ve got some
questions:

  • should all the formatting attributes (quotes, italics, text-case) also
    work on the affixes? Currently Zotero doesn’t take them along, but I don’t
    know whether that’s the desired behavior.

This is a decision we need to make. Once case where they clearly
should is with superscript for citation marks.

The new processor applies formatting in a different order on the
layout element in order to capture affixes to the layout, …

FWIW, in my code, the formatting attributes always stay with the
content strings. So it doesn’t really make any difference to me.

But there is an open question about the correct behavior. For example,
if you (gasp) have an underlined title, then it looks wrong to have
the affixes underlined too. So I think we’re going to have to make
these calls for each of the formatting attributes, unfortunately. Feel
free to make suggestions.

That’s what I had done. :slight_smile: I’m saying that for any rendering
element, applying the formatting attributes to its content in the
order I’ve suggested will produce correct output in all cases.

Doh!

OK, so you’re suggesting I put this in the spec more-or-less as is, as
an ordered list?

Bruce

Feel
free to make suggestions.

but I think a uniform order of application can safely be used everywhere, if it’s
made a bit more fine-grained than I now have it. From innermost to
outermost:

text-case
text-decoration
font-style, font-weight, font-variant, *font-family
(pre-quote punctuation from suffix)
quotes
affixes (less pre-quote punctuation)
vertical-align

That’s what I had done. :slight_smile: I’m saying that for any rendering
element, applying the formatting attributes to its content in the
order I’ve suggested will produce correct output in all cases.

Doh!

OK, so you’re suggesting I put this in the spec more-or-less as is, as
an ordered list?

Yes – it hasn’t been implemented or tested, but if neither you nor
Rintze pick up any problems with it, I’d like to give it a try.

If I recall correctly, in my lifelong experience as CSL style author (:P) I
only ever had trouble with a lack of affix-superscripting in citation
clusters. Any rare cases where affixes should receive all the same
formatting as the main output can always be handled with a conditional and
separate text element for the affixes, e.g.:

>

Alternatively the output can be put into a group, specifying the markup:

>

Label output doesn’t even need the conditional. The only limitation of
Frank’s suggestion I can come up with is formatting of the affixes of the
layout element in citation. You wouldn’t be able to specify (Doe 1999, 2000;
Johson 2000) with everything in bold, right? E.g. by using ‘<layout
font-weight=“bold” prefix="(" suffix=") delimiter="; ">’. Now that I think
of it: Frank, does your CSL processor currently format delimiters as
specified in the calling rendering element, as is the case in the current
Zotero CSL processor*? I think that’s desired behavior.

*With I
get:

(Baranowska et al., 2009; Fayed, 2008; Gerstein, 2008) [i.e. the delimiters show up as italics, but the affixes don’t]

RintzeOn Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:26 AM, Frank Bennett <@Frank_Bennett>wrote:

By golly, you’re right. And that’s something a style might want –
superscripting plus boldface. So maybe what the processor does right
now is more correct.**

The current setup works like this:

(a) On ordinary rendering elements, applying formatting attributes
first, then affixes, in the following order, with jiggery-pokery for
punctuation and quotes:

text-case
text-decoration
font-style
font-weight
font-variant
*font-family
(pre-quote punctuation from suffix)
quotes
vertical-alignOn Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Rintze Zelle<@Rintze_Zelle> wrote:

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:26 AM, Frank Bennett <@Frank_Bennett> > wrote:

but I think a uniform order of application can safely be used
everywhere, if it’s
made a bit more fine-grained than I now have it. From innermost to
outermost:

text-case
text-decoration
font-style, font-weight, font-variant, *font-family
(pre-quote punctuation from suffix)
quotes
affixes (less pre-quote punctuation)
vertical-align

That’s what I had done. :slight_smile: I’m saying that for any rendering
element, applying the formatting attributes to its content in the
order I’ve suggested will produce correct output in all cases.

Doh!

OK, so you’re suggesting I put this in the spec more-or-less as is, as
an ordered list?

Yes – it hasn’t been implemented or tested, but if neither you nor
Rintze pick up any problems with it, I’d like to give it a try.

If I recall correctly, in my lifelong experience as CSL style author (:P) I
only ever had trouble with a lack of affix-superscripting in citation
clusters. Any rare cases where affixes should receive all the same
formatting as the main output can always be handled with a conditional and
separate text element for the affixes, e.g.:

>

Alternatively the output can be put into a group, specifying the markup:

>

Label output doesn’t even need the conditional. The only limitation of
Frank’s suggestion I can come up with is formatting of the affixes of the
layout element in citation. You wouldn’t be able to specify (Doe 1999, 2000;
Johson 2000) with everything in bold, right?

affixes (less pre-quote punctuation)

(b) On layout, apply affixes first, then formatting, as follows:

affixes
+
text-case
text-decoration
font-style
font-weight
font-variant
*font-family
quotes
vertical-align

** “Correct” is looking more elastic to me with every passing day,
pretty soon it will have achieved the amorphous transcendence of terms
like “cool” and “legal in Nevada”.

Frank

E.g. by using ‘<layout
font-weight=“bold” prefix="(" suffix=") delimiter="; ">’. Now that I think
of it: Frank, does your CSL processor currently format delimiters as
specified in the calling rendering element, as is the case in the current
Zotero CSL processor*? I think that’s desired behavior.

*With I
get:

(Baranowska et al., 2009; Fayed, 2008; Gerstein, 2008) [i.e. the delimiters show up as italics, but the affixes don’t]

Yes, delimiters would be boldfaced there. To avoid that, the bold
would go a group enclosing the full content of the layout. The group
would apply to each cite, while the layout applies to the result of
rendering all of the cites.

Can I suggest that as these issues come up and people have ideas for
how they should be dealt with, that you just add them to the spec
document*?

Bruce

  • csl/doc/specification.mdml