# Names formatting, with initialization

**URL:** <https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/names-formatting-with-initialization/577>\
**Category:** CSL Development\
**Created:** [March 22, 2009, 6:49am UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/names-formatting-with-initialization/577 "2009-03-22T06:49:58Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 5\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Frank\_Bennett](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.citationstyles.org/frank_bennett/32/198_2.png) [@Frank\_Bennett](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Frank_Bennett)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 6:49am UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/names-formatting-with-initialization/577/1 "2009-03-22T06:49:58Z")

</div>

Here is a test of the abbreviation of secondary names, with a cyrillic  
name in the mix. If someone familiar with East European citation  
styles could take a look and check whether the handling should be  
altered to make this useful, it would be a great help.

// book::seven-names-1  
{  
“type”: “book”,  
“author”: [  
{ “name”:“Чайковский, Пётр Ильич” },  
{ “name”:“van Winkle, Rip” },  
{ “name”:“我妻, 栄” },  
{ “name”:“Thucydides, Carl, III” },  
{ “name”:“Tokugawa, Ieyasu !” },  
{ “name”:“Ministry of Fear, Loathing and Error !!” },  
{ “name”:“Prince” }  
],  
“issued”: “2000”,  
“title”: “Our Story”  
}

// names/test022.txt  
{  
“citation”:[{“source”:“book::seven-names-1”}],  
“testof”: “citation”,  
“csl”:"

 ", "result":"П.И. ЧАЙКОВСКИЙ, R. van WINKLE, 我妻栄, C. THUCYDIDES III, TOKUGAWA Ieyasu, et al." }

Frank

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**Author:** ![Bruce\_D\_Arcus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Bruce\_D\_Arcus1](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Bruce_D_Arcus1)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 12:02pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/names-formatting-with-initialization/577/2 "2009-03-22T12:02:38Z")

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I can’t help on that one, but otherwise the test looks right.

Of course, this examples throws in a major issue:most styles expect  
names in the form of the output script. In the styles I’ve seen that  
mix, say, Kanji and English, you’d have all Kanji names transliterated  
by default, with the original Kanji following.

We have no way to represent this in CSL, and we probably should (just  
as we do with things like titles).

Bruce

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Elena\_Razlogova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Elena\_Razlogova](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Elena_Razlogova)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 12:07pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/names-formatting-with-initialization/577/3 "2009-03-22T12:07:24Z")

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The Cyrillic is indeed correct. Elena

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Bruce\_D\_Arcus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Bruce\_D\_Arcus1](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Bruce_D_Arcus1)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/names-formatting-with-initialization/577/4 "2009-03-22T12:25:22Z")

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One other thing, just so you keep it in my view …

> ```
> { "name":"van Winkle, Rip" },
> 
> ```

How do you deal with cases where the articular are non-sorting? E.g.  
Alexander von Humbolt" sorts on Humboldt I believe. And I’m not sure,  
but I imagine output could be:

Humbolt, Alexander, von

… or something weird like that (or maybe the von gets dropped; not  
sure). And the rules vary by locale, and by name (I once talked about  
this with Eric van der Vlist, who treats the entire last three names  
as a family name (and sorts on van).

Johan would probably know, but he’s busy with other things.

Bruce

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Frank\_Bennett](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.citationstyles.org/frank_bennett/32/198_2.png) [@Frank\_Bennett](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Frank_Bennett)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 12:37pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/names-formatting-with-initialization/577/5 "2009-03-22T12:37:07Z")

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> One other thing, just so you keep it in my view …
> 
> > ```
> > { "name":"van Winkle, Rip" },
> > 
> > ```
> 
> How do you deal with cases where the articular are non-sorting? E.g.  
> Alexander von Humbolt" sorts on Humboldt I believe. And I’m not sure,  
> but I imagine output could be:
> 
> Humbolt, Alexander, von
> 
> … or something weird like that (or maybe the von gets dropped; not  
> sure). And the rules vary by locale, and by name (I once talked about  
> this with Eric van der Vlist, who treats the entire last three names  
> as a family name (and sorts on van).
> 
> Johan would probably know, but he’s busy with other things.

This will be _all_ _kinds_ of entertaining. For the moment I’ll just  
leave it as it is, but you’re right, these need to be handled  
correctly. The articular is parsed to a separate term, so it will  
just be a matter of coding up the rules when we decide what they  
should be.

Frank