# more on names

**URL:** <https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/more-on-names/552>\
**Category:** CSL Development\
**Created:** [March 3, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/more-on-names/552 "2009-03-03T17:08:59Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 6\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Bruce\_D\_Arcus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Bruce\_D\_Arcus1](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Bruce_D_Arcus1)\
**Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/more-on-names/552/1 "2009-03-03T17:08:59Z")

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This thread on name formatting has expanded:

[http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/5864/how-to-capitalize-only-the-authors-last-name/](http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/5864/how-to-capitalize-only-the-authors-last-name/)

Bruce

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**Author:** ![Bruce\_D\_Arcus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Bruce\_D\_Arcus1](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Bruce_D_Arcus1)\
**Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/more-on-names/552/2 "2009-03-03T20:07:02Z")

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So here’s what they’re proposing:

To yield output like “Richard STRAUSS” and “TAKEDA Shingen.”

What it would mean is that child elements of cs:name only configure  
formatting; not display order.

At this point I don’t care: if Frank and Andrea think it makes sense  
(since they’re both actively writing implementations), I say we add  
it.

So, Frank? Andrea? Simon? What’s your vote, and why?

Bruce

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**Author:** ![Simon\_Kornblith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Simon\_Kornblith](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Simon_Kornblith)\
**Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/more-on-names/552/3 "2009-03-03T20:24:13Z")

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Sounds reasonable to me. The customizability can’t hurt, and it  
doesn’t sound as if it would be difficult to implement.

Simon

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**Author:** ![Frank\_Bennett](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.citationstyles.org/frank_bennett/32/198_2.png) [@Frank\_Bennett](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Frank_Bennett)\
**Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/more-on-names/552/4 "2009-03-03T23:15:10Z")

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> > This thread on name formatting has expanded:
> > 
> > [http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/5864/how-to-capitalize-only-the-authors-last-name/](http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/5864/how-to-capitalize-only-the-authors-last-name/)
> 
> So here’s what they’re proposing:
> 
> To yield output like “Richard STRAUSS” and “TAKEDA Shingen.”
> 
> What it would mean is that child elements of cs:name only configure  
> formatting; not display order.

Looks good to me. As you indicated on the forum it’s a puzzle how the  
display order will be set, but that can be dealt with separately.  
This makes the sub-element formatting clear, at least, and shouldn’t  
interfere with a display order solution when it arrives.

Frank

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**Author:** ![Bruce\_D\_Arcus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Bruce\_D\_Arcus1](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Bruce_D_Arcus1)\
**Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/more-on-names/552/5 "2009-03-04T01:15:55Z")

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OK. While waiting to see what Andrea says, I’ll ask how this should be  
designed. So:

1. what structures? The minimum is family and given, but prefix,  
suffix and articular are also in theory possible. Whatever we do needs  
to be international-friendly.

2. what XML? do the structures above get encoded as elements, or  
attributes? I suggest mirroring the date design:

Bruce

PS - reminds me: we need to fix the date stuff!

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**Author:** ![Frank\_Bennett](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.citationstyles.org/frank_bennett/32/198_2.png) [@Frank\_Bennett](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Frank_Bennett)\
**Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/more-on-names/552/6 "2009-03-04T02:09:48Z")

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> > Looks good to me. As you indicated on the forum it’s a puzzle how the  
> > display order will be set, but that can be dealt with separately.  
> > This makes the sub-element formatting clear, at least, and shouldn’t  
> > interfere with a display order solution when it arrives.
> 
> OK. While waiting to see what Andrea says, I’ll ask how this should be  
> designed. So:
> 
> 1. what structures? The minimum is family and given, but prefix,  
> suffix and articular are also in theory possible. Whatever we do needs  
> to be international-friendly.
> 
> 2. what XML? do the structures above get encoded as elements, or  
> attributes? I suggest mirroring the date design:

Ah. The other decorations that names attract, huh. If by articular  
you mean the splice (my vocabulary could be falling short there), that  
seems like an attribute. I guess that prefix and suffix would be  
separate elements. That brings the problem of working out the display  
order to the forefront. Still not sure how that would be done.

For (2), at first glance, surname and given name as elements seem  
better to me. Date-part renders in a fixed sequence. Setting the  
name parts as named elements would provide a visual reminder to the  
style designer that they work differently.