# Closing a last few tickets for CSL 1.0.1

**URL:** <https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/closing-a-last-few-tickets-for-csl-1-0-1/1081>\
**Category:** CSL Development\
**Created:** [March 15, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/closing-a-last-few-tickets-for-csl-1-0-1/1081 "2012-03-15T02:27:19Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 6\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Rintze\_Zelle](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.citationstyles.org/rintze_zelle/32/175_2.png) [@Rintze\_Zelle](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Rintze_Zelle)\
**Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/closing-a-last-few-tickets-for-csl-1-0-1/1081/1 "2012-03-15T02:27:19Z")

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Dear all,

I think it makes sense to put out a timely CSL 1.0.1 release in the next  
few months, instead of waiting any longer for the Zotero team to address  
all the tickets affecting the Zotero data model (see  
[https://github.com/ajlyon/zotero-bits/issues](https://github.com/ajlyon/zotero-bits/issues)).

Since the release of CSL 1.0 I’ve rewritten most of the specification for  
increased precision and clarity. I closed a number of tickets which should  
all be listed in [http://goo.gl/mD2Ez](http://goo.gl/mD2Ez) (source:  
[https://github.com/citation-style-language/documentation/blob/master/release-notes-CSL-1.0.1.txt](https://github.com/citation-style-language/documentation/blob/master/release-notes-CSL-1.0.1.txt)).  
The rendered version of the trunk specification can be seen at  
[http://goo.gl/r5gkH](http://goo.gl/r5gkH) (source:  
[https://github.com/citation-style-language/documentation/blob/master/specification.txt](https://github.com/citation-style-language/documentation/blob/master/specification.txt)).

In order to prepare for 1.0.1, I would like to make one last round of  
tickets we can close without too much discussion. I identified several  
candidates which I would like to receive feedback on. If I don’t receive  
feedback in the next two weeks, I assume people have no objections against  
their implementation. Feel free to suggest other tickets that you think are  
uncontroversial that I might have missed. Please provide feedback on  
individual tickets via the GitHub issue tracker.

Tickets:

Allow dependent styles to define an overriding default-locale value

> <https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/issues/91>
>
> The primary use case seems to be for popular generic-base styles like Vancouver. Here we probably want to leave out the...

  
My opinion: would like to implement proposal as is  
My question: whether any CSL-implementators have problems with this, since  
information in dependent styles will start to affect how the independent  
parent style is rendered

Create new terms for commonly used text strings

> <https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/issues/90>
>
> http://xbiblio-devel.2463403.n2.nabble.com/cs-text-verbatim-usage-td7105033.html
> Candidates:
> "available-from" or "available-at"
> "supra"
> @fbennett, did you come across any common strings in law styles you'd like to have available as terms?

  
My opinion: would like to add terms for “supra” and “available-at”. I’m not  
yet convinced that any of the other candidates are popular enough to  
warrant a term.  
My question: what happens if a CSL 1.0.1 processor encounters a CSL 1.0.1  
style calling a new term and only has a CSL 1.0 locale file which doesn’t  
define the term? (CSL 1.0.1 should be backward-compatible) Would it make  
sense to have a hardcoded list with default term values in each CSL  
processor for CSL 1.0.1 terms?

Add “page-range-format” option for OSCOLA

> <https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/issues/84>
>
> An as of yet unsupported page-range format is used by OSCOLA (see "1.3.2 Ranges of numbers and years" on page 7...

  
My opinion: would like to implement proposal as is, although I’m still  
undecided about the best name of the attribute value. It’s a bit nitpicky,  
but I prefer “minimum-two” over “minimal-two” (  
[http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=935755](http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=935755) )

Add a test condition context=“citation” / context=“bibliography”

> <https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/issues/80>
>
> In note styles, the formatting of entries in cs:citation and cs:bibliography is often roughly the same, with some small adjustments to,...

  
(probably will mostly be used in complex styles, which are less likely to  
be ever edited with a style editor)  
My opinion: would like to implement proposal

Spec language for multiple numbers

> <https://github.com/citation-style-language/documentation/issues/6>
>
> Currently, the specification provides for recognition only of a single number through a cs:number node:
> http://citationstyles.org/downloads/specification.html#number
> This is a proposal to permit multiple...

  
My opinion: would be good to implement, but need input from Frank and  
others, and this will need some polishing

> <https://github.com/citation-style-language/zotero-bits/issues/7>
>
> There is a CSL ticket to add two variables, scale and dimensions. If added, "Scale"/scale can be mapped to scale (for...

  

> <https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/issues/14>
>
> As suggested at http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg\_name=fbb7c5df0909211630o1848677bi85c4dc13df012ee2%40mail.gmail.com
> "scale" is a Zotero field for the Zotero Map item type, but doesn't have a matching CSL variable....

  
My opinion: I already added a “dimensions” term, but I think we probably  
should also add “scale”. Furthermore, we probably need accompanying terms  
as well.

Best,

Rintze

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**Author:** ![Charles\_Parnot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/57b2e6/32.png) [@Charles\_Parnot](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Charles_Parnot)\
**Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/closing-a-last-few-tickets-for-csl-1-0-1/1081/2 "2012-03-15T19:07:33Z")

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I am OK with the list. I can’t comment too much, since I really only can judge things from an implementor’s point of view, and not so much as a style writer, where frankly, I have very little experience. As an implementor, I’ll just support whatever makes the life of style writers and users easier.

Regarding the issue of 1.0 locales not working well with 1.0.1 styles, I would not worry too much about it. I am not sure when that can happen, and if that happens, I don’t see why the CSL specs would have to go out of their way to cover the case. Also, I am not sure it can be handled gracefully anyway… I’d rather see more terms supported for a better user experience 🙂

In any case, it’s great to see how much care is going into this. I am, as always, impressed…

Charles

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**Author:** ![Bruce\_D\_Arcus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Bruce\_D\_Arcus1](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Bruce_D_Arcus1)\
**Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/closing-a-last-few-tickets-for-csl-1-0-1/1081/3 "2012-03-15T19:14:58Z")

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> Tickets:
> 
> Allow dependent styles to define an overriding default-locale value  
> [Allow dependent styles to define an overriding default-locale value · Issue #91 · citation-style-language/schema · GitHub](https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/issues/91)  
> My opinion: would like to implement proposal as is  
> My question: whether any CSL-implementators have problems with this, since  
> information in dependent styles will start to affect how the independent  
> parent style is rendered

Yeah, this seems to me an important question: it fundamentally changes  
the meaning of a “dependent style” to include processing override  
behavior. I can see the value of this particular case, but do we  
really want to go down this path now?

> Create new terms for commonly used text strings  
> [Create new terms for commonly used text strings · Issue #90 · citation-style-language/schema · GitHub](https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/issues/90)  
> My opinion: would like to add terms for “supra” and “available-at”. I’m not  
> yet convinced that any of the other candidates are popular enough to warrant  
> a term.  
> My question: what happens if a CSL 1.0.1 processor encounters a CSL 1.0.1  
> style calling a new term and only has a CSL 1.0 locale file which doesn’t  
> define the term? (CSL 1.0.1 should be backward-compatible) Would it make  
> sense to have a hardcoded list with default term values in each CSL  
> processor for CSL 1.0.1 terms?

I support this change, but think implementers should tell us how  
they’re going to respond.

> Add “page-range-format” option for OSCOLA  
> [Add "page-range-format" option for OSCOLA · Issue #84 · citation-style-language/schema · GitHub](https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/issues/84)  
> My opinion: would like to implement proposal as is, although I’m still  
> undecided about the best name of the attribute value. It’s a bit nitpicky,  
> but I prefer “minimum-two” over “minimal-two” (  
> [Minimum - minimal | WordReference Forums](http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=935755) )

I agree with you.

> Add a test condition context=“citation” / context=“bibliography”  
> [Add a test condition context="citation" / context="bibliography" · Issue #80 · citation-style-language/schema · GitHub](https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/issues/80)  
> (probably will mostly be used in complex styles, which are less likely to be  
> ever edited with a style editor)  
> My opinion: would like to implement proposal

I never understood this issue, but think I do now:

It is to allow authors to define single macros that can define  
behavior across the citation/bibliography divide.

Is that right?

If yes, this is another subtly big issue. Right now, citation and bib  
configuration are strictly separate. This would change that.

Pro: allows less verbose styles  
Con: changes the essential logic of CSL, and potentially (?) could  
lead to really confusing styles  
Question: do the pros really outweigh the cons?

Bruce

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**Author:** ![Robert\_Knight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ba9def/32.png) [@Robert\_Knight](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Robert_Knight)\
**Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/closing-a-last-few-tickets-for-csl-1-0-1/1081/4 "2012-03-15T19:28:30Z")

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> Yeah, this seems to me an important question: it fundamentally changes  
> the meaning of a “dependent style” to include  
> processing override behavior.

A comment on the ticket mentions that potentially there could be a lot  
of styles created which  
differ only in this attribute. Are there any other attributes which  
this could happen with?

Regards,  
Rob.

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**Author:** ![Sebastian\_Karcher](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.citationstyles.org/sebastian_karcher/32/176_2.png) [@Sebastian\_Karcher](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Sebastian_Karcher)\
**Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/closing-a-last-few-tickets-for-csl-1-0-1/1081/5 "2012-03-15T19:48:02Z")

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just a quick not from the style creator perspective:

> > > Tickets:
> > > 
> > > Allow dependent styles to define an overriding default-locale value  
> > > [Allow dependent styles to define an overriding default-locale value · Issue #91 · citation-style-language/schema · GitHub](https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/issues/91)  
> > > My opinion: would like to implement proposal as is  
> > > My question: whether any CSL-implementators have problems with this, since  
> > > information in dependent styles will start to affect how the independent  
> > > parent style is rendered
> > 
> > Yeah, this seems to me an important question: it fundamentally changes  
> > the meaning of a “dependent style” to include processing override  
> > behavior. I can see the value of this particular case, but do we  
> > really want to go down this path now?  
> > I understand Bruce’s concern, but I really want to put in a big pretty  
> > please to implement this. It will make things so much easier.  
> > Following Robert’s question, I don’t think there are any other  
> > attributes that are comparable to the locale attribute in this  
> > respect. While it’s not unlikely that we will have cases that are  
> > "just like APA but with page-range-format=“minimal” - these are still  
> > different styles and I don’t mind maintaining them as such. A style  
> > with a default locale is actually the same style - it just forces  
> > non-English (typically) users to work with their client’s locale  
> > settings.

> > > Add a test condition context=“citation” / context=“bibliography”  
> > > [Add a test condition context="citation" / context="bibliography" · Issue #80 · citation-style-language/schema · GitHub](https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/issues/80)  
> > > (probably will mostly be used in complex styles, which are less likely to be  
> > > ever edited with a style editor)  
> > > My opinion: would like to implement proposal
> > 
> > I never understood this issue, but think I do now:
> > 
> > It is to allow authors to define single macros that can define  
> > behavior across the citation/bibliography divide.
> > 
> > Is that right?  
> > Yes.  
> > This is Frank’s baby. For me this will rarely, if ever, be useful. As  
> > I say on the ticket, it’s only relevant for note styles. The  
> > formatting in Chicago Manual for notes and bibliography - which are  
> > the template for almost all non-legal note styles - is quite distinct,  
> > so this won’t help much. If Frank is really attached or if this has  
> > for some reason I’m overlooking the potential to be really helpful for  
> > GUI style creating, let’s go with it, but otherwise I’d throw this one  
> > out.  
> > Best,–

* * *

Sebastian Karcher  
Ph.D. Candidate  
Department of Political Science  
Northwestern University

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**Author:** ![Rintze\_Zelle](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.citationstyles.org/rintze_zelle/32/175_2.png) [@Rintze\_Zelle](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/u/Rintze_Zelle)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://discourse.citationstyles.org/t/closing-a-last-few-tickets-for-csl-1-0-1/1081/6 "2012-03-19T18:05:11Z")

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As a bit of background: while the default-locale attribute existed before  
CSL 1.0, it wasn’t well-documented or recognized by Zotero, and few styles  
carried it. As a result, most styles used to localize according to the  
system/Zotero-locale for Zotero users. While automatic localization is a  
neat feature of CSL, it is clearly undesirable for journal-specific styles,  
so I recently went over all independent styles and added default-locales  
where applicable. This left us with a small selection of  
non-journal-specific styles (e.g. APA, Vancouver and IEEE). These include  
all the popular styles, which are generally prime candidates for automatic  
localization (which would argue for leaving out a default-locale), but  
which also have many dependents that are locale-specific (e.g. for US  
journals). Allowing dependent styles to specify a default-locale would  
solve this dilemma.

So I think this case is rather special. One other option I see is setting a  
default-locale even for styles like Vancouver, but this would decrease the  
discoverability of automatic style localization, and should IMHO be  
accompanied by an easy way for the user to specify an overriding locale (in  
the case of Zotero, preferably both in the general preferences and the word  
processor plugins preferences (on a per-document basis)).

Rintze